Curse

Shuuda · Mar 02, 2009, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Meh, it's not that good. Well, nothing that a quick interrupt cannot thrash. Once RoJ is out of the picture, the rest is pretty lame.

MasterSasori · Mar 02, 2009, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Meh, it's not that good. Well, nothing that a quick interrupt cannot thrash. Once RoJ is out of the picture, the rest is pretty lame.

A good Ranger or Mesmer interrupter can trash just about anything though.

At OP: AB/JQ RoJ monks are just glass cannons. They are meant to do good damage with RoJ, do a bit of tricks, then die a horrible death only to be revived moments later.

housecalls · Mar 03, 2009, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Take out the main skill of any AB build and it dies.......come on something better than that professor. How about why water is wet?

And yes Interupters destroys most builds.

And yet on top of all this discussion it is still a really fun build to run

tmakinen · Mar 03, 2009, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by housecalls

it is still a really fun build to run

I bet that you just serendipitously stumbled upon the reason for the existence of RoJ smiting wammos in AB. However, the largest amount of fun is being had on the opponent's side. Whenever I see RoJ smiters in AB I drop them to the bottom of the priority list like touchers, Defy Pain warriors and terra tanks.

Would you please pay attention to the recharge times of your offensive skills? Any semi-competent monk will be able to catch your initial 'spike' and you'll never get a second chance since teams without solid support tend to get steamrolled by those that have it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

AB/JQ RoJ monks are just glass cannons. They are meant to do good damage with RoJ, do a bit of tricks, then die a horrible death only to be revived moments later.

That is a good strategy in JQ where death comes without any penalty and can sometimes be even advantageous. However, dying has a steep penalty in AB and people only ignore it because they can't see a DP indicator. It really irks me when an otherwise good game is lost by some allies who keep dying over and over and over again.

housecalls · Mar 03, 2009, 09:38 AM // 09:38

"semi-competent monk" in AB?

hahaha toss a coin

"Whenever I see RoJ smiters in AB I drop them to the bottom of the priority list "

works for me

Anwyn · Mar 03, 2009, 11:30 AM // 11:30

housecalls, I am feeling your pain dude... Getting hammered on by everyone for posting... Tis what this community does, they knock on people and push their opinions as fact... I got knocked for suggesting a 3 paragon, 1 healer build, it rocked for me and we killed fast and had awesome e-management, protection, perma speed boost, anti blocks, healing... yet people shot it down HUGE!!! Wanna know why??? Cos "Para's suck in AB", how many of them do you think tried the build?

Back on main topic... I love RoJ smiting, and I fully agree with you, the stupidity of players in AB makes it a breeze when running 4 of them... one suggestion tho, your aggro taker, or the guy who is running up front, let him go Mo/E and use grasping earth before you all RoJ, helps tons...

trust me... Also, if you see a allied hammer war, follow him around and RoJ when he KDs...

Lux Aeterna · Mar 03, 2009, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

A good Ranger or Mesmer interrupter can trash just about anything though.

At OP: AB/JQ RoJ monks are just glass cannons. They are meant to do good damage with RoJ, do a bit of tricks, then die a horrible death only to be revived moments later.

Lol I used to just spend all my time in JQ interrupting RoJ with Beguiling Haze on my W/A... with a 7 second daze and no more RoJ, smite monks would either put up a halfhearted defense with signets or just stand there.

Since beguiling haze and RoJ have the same recharge, there was one time I just stood next to the one smite monk I couldn't kill, chatting as I just interrupted her every 20 seconds.

I think it's sad that so many people use a JQ fad build out of context with no understanding of why it was popular.

Last smite monk I had in a party wouldn't heal me when I degened down to 40hp, preferring rather to stand there until getting jumped by a sin moments later.

Syntonic · Mar 03, 2009, 06:16 PM // 18:16

The only issue is - you don't have to be a good interrupter to trash RoJ builds. RoJ itself is 2 seconds and the rest is mostly full of 1 second casts. I'm a pretty bad interrupter (in my opinion though like all scrubs, I blame it on my orange/red circle) and even I think this is pretty easy to do.
If the community points out the problems with a build, it's not a personal attack. Instead of taking it that way, you might improve if you acknowledged the weaknesses and limitations so that if you -do- decide to run it, you know what to avoid. As it is, this is pretty much like ele shrine clearing bars except with less mass AoEs but with more self defense at the expense of quicker shrine clearing. This is mitigated by the fact that you run 3 more copies on other people which happens to be a good way of getting around that hurdle. I honestly don't think it's that horrid of a team build - you aren't going to kill any decent team with it or any players with half a brain but with 4 copies of guardian (against fire eles! Wand damage hurts!), reversal of damage spam (pump that divine favour!) and dash to run away (mainly this), you should all have a pretty good survival rate and be able to cap shrines easily enough. That's a lot better than 3/4ths of the pugs out there though this forum has a slightly higher standard. Maybe. Sometimes. If I were going to run 4 roj smiters, I'd probably change the build a bit but the basics are about the same regardless. Fortunately, I'm much too lazy to try to convince 3 other people that I know to run RoJ builds in AB.

Also, if my WoH gets dshotted or if I'm terribad and lose it to diversion, I can still do monkly duties albiet a lot more poorly. However, there are several builds with a single point of failure these days - palm strike being the most prevalent. Fortunately, it has enough strengths to it to be overlooked. Palm strike isn't that easy to interrupt either unless they are looking for it. That can't be said about the chain that comes after though since it's pretty noticeable but that's been a constant issue for sins.

MasterSasori · Mar 03, 2009, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anwyn

housecalls, I am feeling your pain dude... Getting hammered on by everyone for posting... Tis what this community does, they knock on people and push their opinions as fact... I got knocked for suggesting a 3 paragon, 1 healer build, it rocked for me and we killed fast and had awesome e-management, protection, perma speed boost, anti blocks, healing... yet people shot it down HUGE!!! Wanna know why??? Cos "Para's suck in AB", how many of them do you think tried the build?

Hey hey now, don't play the victim. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinions, but its your argument behind what you state that matters. If your argument doesn't hold water, don't expect people to take it nicely.

BTW, I like Paras in AB.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anwyn

Back on main topic... I love RoJ smiting, and I fully agree with you, the stupidity of players in AB makes it a breeze when running 4 of them... one suggestion tho, your aggro taker, or the guy who is running up front, let him go Mo/E and use grasping earth before you all RoJ, helps tons...

trust me... Also, if you see a allied hammer war, follow him around and RoJ when he KDs...

The stupidity of AB players make just about anything a breeze if you know your build, even if its bad.

Why not just run KD or Shove sin, Hammer War, or Cripshot ranger?

Alleji · Mar 03, 2009, 11:00 PM // 23:00

RoJ is terrible.

Sure, it clears shrines, but so do 2023764 other skills in fire magic.

A player is going to take at most 1 hit from RoJ, if you catch him by surprise. If he sees you aiming it at him, he'll take zero. So, unless you coordinate RoJ with a hammer war or a sin, it's pretty much worthless.

Other than RoJ, this build has random pewpew skills that are extremely weak unless you get the conditional trigger, weak healing, and no utility: i.e. doesn't do anything.

EDIT: I guess the animation is cool. :V

MasterSasori · Mar 03, 2009, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

RoJ is terrible.

Sure, it clears shrines, but so do 2023764 other skills in fire magic.

A player is going to take at most 1 hit from RoJ, if you catch him by surprise. If he sees you aiming it at him, he'll take zero. So, unless you coordinate RoJ with a hammer war or a sin, it's pretty much worthless.

Other than RoJ, this build has random pewpew skills that are extremely weak unless you get the conditional trigger, weak healing, and no utility: i.e. doesn't do anything.

EDIT: I guess the animation is cool. :V

Smite monks aren't really as terrible as you make it, they provide decent supplemental roles with hex/condition removal and some damage mitigation. The problem is that AB just isn't that great with roles that aren't very clear cut and most people don't use it correctly either.

And no, believe me, there are some people who will stay in RoJ for 3 or more hits. I think there was a necro who ran into it so he could use Plague Sending. Go figure.

Lux Aeterna · Mar 04, 2009, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

RoJ is terrible.

Sure, it clears shrines, but so do 2023764 other skills in fire magic.

A player is going to take at most 1 hit from RoJ, if you catch him by surprise. If he sees you aiming it at him, he'll take zero. So, unless you coordinate RoJ with a hammer war or a sin, it's pretty much worthless.

Actually, today I stood in an RoJ for the full duration without cancelling P rage

... half HP... I had 644 and two monk but still...

JQ fad build, like necro bombers.

Also, I'd like to see more good paragons in AB, but I'm afraid to invite them because I don't know building for the class and suspect that any random ones are going to be noobs.

anybody play a good paragon and want to AB with me ?

Bobulation · Mar 04, 2009, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Just run 3 RoJ smiting monks and my special BB monk that works in AB, and is fun to play!
[BB Monk;OwES44JPmFsPO5ssGDKLk5B]

Anwyn · Mar 04, 2009, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

Hey hey now, don't play the victim. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinions, but its your argument behind what you state that matters. If your argument doesn't hold water, don't expect people to take it nicely.

BTW, I like Paras in AB.

The stupidity of AB players make just about anything a breeze if you know your build, even if its bad.

Why not just run KD or Shove sin, Hammer War, or Cripshot ranger?

Yeah, I hear you, and i did have a really good argument, but people were like, "rather run balanced" "nuker is faster" "bla bla la" Instead of saying, oh yeah, that will work as well, I can see it's benefits... What I found about the general GW community is that if you're not using what is meta at the time, you're a noob and can't build for crap... :/

tmakinen · Mar 04, 2009, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

Also, I'd like to see more good paragons in AB, but I'm afraid to invite them because I don't know building for the class and suspect that any random ones are going to be noobs.

The problem with paragons in AB is that in order to benefit from the class self-synergy you really, really want to run 3 of them with a tailored support character, anything less is iffy at best (caused by the team size handicap to paras). Granted, a well crafted paragon team is a lean and mean killing machine but that can be said of any complete team builds where you have the luxury of designing the entire set instead of taking what's available.

Anwyn · Mar 04, 2009, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Exacty, para's need to be in a big team preferably 8 or in a co-ordinated and synergized 4 man team... I ran a paraway AB build that worked wonders, but we were all on vent, calling targets and sticking close together!...

housecalls · Mar 04, 2009, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Thats the stuff Bobulation

Good to see im not the only one trying to have fun in AB.
You still see Hamstormers in AB and i say have fun

As long as the team knew about it and was ok with it then go for it.
I know its fun for me to see some of the builds run and lots of them make me laugh.....after all the flaming, time spent and titles it is still just a game

Darth The Xx · Mar 05, 2009, 03:57 AM // 03:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anwyn

Yeah, I hear you, and i did have a really good argument, but people were like, "rather run balanced" "nuker is faster" "bla bla la" Instead of saying, oh yeah, that will work as well, I can see it's benefits... What I found about the general GW community is that if you're not using what is meta at the time, you're a noob and can't build for crap... :/

And how is RoJ NOT part of the meta atm. Every second monk runs it in AB thats meta enough for me.

The problem is its just not that useful it makes a pretty beam of light and does some damage, the build also has 0 redundancy, RoJ is gone and you're screwed. I just can't see the "fun" in running a sub par build.

Btw about them paragons me and my friend run duplicate builds but one has weakness and one uses flame, P/Mo with empathic removal totally unkillable

housecalls · Mar 05, 2009, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Again

"the build also has 0 redundancy, RoJ is gone and you're screwed."

Same can be said for 99% of builds if you remove/interupt the key skill.

bungusmaximus · Mar 05, 2009, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Don't waste your damage and run something to keep players in RoJ, like earthen shackles or a hammer/KD sin. Besides that RoJ works better on a mesmer imho. They can take enchant removal and interrupts too.